A simpler, one-click log-in button is now in place. Can't log in to your Job Seeker account? Email techsupport@dice.com.

Reply
Member
Job Talk
Posts: 938
Registered: ‎05-09-2008

Re: Four tragic stories

walterbyrd,

 

"Can we please stop the offtopic 'walmart shopping' discussion?

This is about inshoring IT workers, not offshoring assembly line workers."

 

I really think these facets of globalization are quite interdependent. If we had a strong manufacturing base, that would aliviate most of the pressure on STEM to compensate for the systemic unemployment problems in the US.

In other words, I don't think we can macro-economically solve the current IT worker glut without also addressing the practices which are wiping out other industries in the US.

 

I suppose it makes the most sense to focus our very limited resources on IT's problems - I'm just not sure whether that'll be enough.

 

 

Please use plain text.
Member
FormerH1B
Posts: 283
Registered: ‎08-27-2008

Re: Four tragic stories

Here is a fix for replacement workers:

 

- put a hard wage floor on ANY visa that allows employment

 

Make that floor high enough. I think after skimming through H1Bbistro site wage floor in the vicinity of 120k-140k is sufficient, adjusted annualy for inflation similar to how SS controbution limit is adjusted. Probably will cut H1B/L1 intake by 90% based on that site. Problem solved. And politically arguing to floor instead of outright ban is much easier. Cutting down H1/L1 intake by 90% is not as good as cutting it down by 100% but I'm pretty sure it is much more viable.

Please use plain text.
Member
pokerplayer
Posts: 940
Registered: ‎03-13-2008

Re: Four tragic stories

There are many h1bs that look legit. It is really only programming jobs that seem shady. Making the IT jobs pay at least 120K or even 90K would cut out most of the problem. Then US citizens could find entry-level programming jobs again.  That is the problem with h1b, because greencards need to prove no citizen is available but not h1b. h1b is the only way to bring in unskilled cheap programmers who take jobs Then after all the h1bs prevent americans from getting experience, they can get more greencards because no americans have experience. It is the 2-pronged approach of the IT immigrant and quite ingenous.

Please use plain text.
Member
NewHavenITguy
Posts: 5,252
Registered: ‎06-03-2009

Re: Four tragic stories

[ Edited ]

 

Trouble is you guys are dreaming with no context aka history. Nixon was the last to try wage and price controls.

Get the visa removed, period.

 

Please use plain text.
Member
WebUI
Posts: 876
Registered: ‎11-22-2010

Re: Four tragic stories

NHITG...totally agree, why do we need these visas while we have an oversupply of local talent. Companies will then hire local.
Please use plain text.
Member
bg6638
Posts: 9,245
Registered: ‎02-08-2007

Re: Four tragic stories


WebUI wrote:
NHITG...totally agree, why do we need these visas while we have an oversupply of local talent. Companies will then hire local.


While we have an oversupply of local talent, there is an undersupply of people willing to work for third world wages .....

Please use plain text.
Member
WebUI
Posts: 876
Registered: ‎11-22-2010

Re: Four tragic stories

or companies that want to pay decent wages with benefits.
Please use plain text.
Member
twins.fan
Posts: 6,000
Registered: ‎02-07-2008

Re: Four tragic stories

[ Edited ]

WebUI wrote:
or companies that want to pay decent wages with benefits.

The benefit of high paid workers is that you have a vigorous consumer class.  Working people who are paid well, are buying a new car every year, are fixing up their house, are sending their kids to college.  They are spending money putiing their neighbors to work.

 

When you lower wages to the third world level, you remove the consumer from the equation.  Yes Bill Gates and Warren Buffet and Michael Bloomberg make more money, but they don't spend it.

 

The Republcans call Bill Gates a job creator.  WRONG!  The jobs creators are consumers.  Consumers create jobs.  Consumers put people to work!:smileymad:

Please use plain text.
Member
twins.fan
Posts: 6,000
Registered: ‎02-07-2008

Re: Four tragic stories


NewHavenITguy wrote:

 

Trouble is you guys are dreaming with no context aka history. Nixon was the last to try wage and price controls.

Get the damn visa removed, period.

 


The question that each of us have to ask is "Do we believe in the free enterprise system?"  If the free enterprise system is valid, wages will rise to meet demand.  If you have a shortage of STEM workers, wages will rise. The contrapositive of that statement is "If wages are not rising, there is no shortage of STEM workers."

 

Well folks wages are no rising.  There is no skills shortage.

Please use plain text.
Member
Mark123k
Posts: 291
Registered: ‎08-27-2010

Re: Four tragic stories

[ Edited ]

twins.fan wrote:

WebUI wrote:
or companies that want to pay decent wages with benefits.

The benefit of high paid workers is that you have a vigorous consumer class.  Working people who are paid well, are buying a new car every year, are fixing up their house, are sending their kids to college.  They are spending money putiing their neighbors to work.

 

When you lower wages to the third world level, you remove the consumer from the equation.  Yes Bill Gates and Warren Buffet and Michael Bloomberg make more money, but they don't spend it.

 

The Republcans call Bill Gates a job creator.  WRONG!  The jobs creators are consumers.  Consumers create jobs.  Consumers put people to work!:smileymad:



Right now corporations are hoarding cash at record levels (to the tune of trillions of dollars) while incurring record low federal taxes.  This has not promoted "job creation" in any way, shape or form.  Corporations refuse to hire anyone who is unemployed and actually prefer guest workers to US citizens and permanent residents.

 

They lay off US workers en masse and hire guest workers at record levels all the while proclaiming this as "job creation." 

 

They crow about a desperate worker shortage while ignoring nearly all resumes sent to them by US citizens and residents.

 

Guest workers somehow magically "create jobs" and are sought after.  

Low taxes on corporations somehow "create jobs."

 

It seems to me that after WWII in the 50's and 60's the reason the US middle class came into existence was because of high taxes on corporations which forced them to either pay their profits in taxes or reinvest that money in tax-deductible ways like hiring US citizens as engineers, scientists, and mathemiticians and into R&D.

 

This led to research and development efforts which created things the world had never seen before (commercial airliners capable of transporting people across the globe, a landing on the moon, and a world-class economy with a viable middle class).

 

Careers were made that lasted decades till people retired.

I say "careers" as opposed to "jobs."

 

This is what initially propelled Boeing and other corporations to become extraordinarily successful. 

 

Now these same corporations have forgotten their own histories.  Their executives are (without exception) short-sighted and have only short term gain on their minds.

 

Corporations and their executives got the US government to reduce their taxes by arguing that lower taxes would lead to "job creation."  There could be nothing further from the truth as recent history has shown.

 

This allowed corporations to keep their profits without reinvesting it into R&D and the subsequent careers that creates.

This has resulted in huge compensation for executives, huge cash hoardes for corporations but has not resulted in the mythical "job creation" that was promised in exchange for those low corporate taxes.

 

Whenever you hear politicians or executives talk about "job creation," run for cover because they mean exactly the opposite.

 

We need careers once again not commoditzed "jobs" that are given to non-US citizen guest workers. 

Careers are what lead to innovation and propel the human race into the future...not commoditized guest worker jobs (which does not lead to innovation).

Please use plain text.

Copyright ©1990 - 2013 Dice. All rights reserved. Use of this site is subject to certain Terms and Conditions.

TRUSTe online privacy certification